Philanthropy Speaks

Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha

• Community Foundation Of Greater Flint • Season 1 • Episode 3

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In this episode, we speak with Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha on her recent book and programs focused on the children of Flint affected by the Flint Water Crisis.

Dr. Hanna-Attisha shares about programs such as the Flint Registry which is in place to identify individuals exposed to the Flint Water Crisis. This program is designed to help keep Flint residents healthy by connecting them to different resources in the community. She also explains the biggest concern she has for Flint kids is the ability to sustain being able to continue providing the great programs and resources for the kids long term.

"Communities all over are learning from us, not just the pipe replacement, but also from the innovative, preventative and proactive work we are doing to help children and families", Dr. Hanna-Attisha said. "What we are doing in Flint is being adopted by other communities and these best practices are all based on science."

Dr. Hanna-Attisha also talks about the book she recently published, What the Eyes Don’t See: A story of Crisis, Resistance, and Hope in an American City. In this book, she explains how to be awake and fight for social justice.

For more information on her book, please visit https://monahannaattisha.com/.

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Intro:

Welcome to our Philanthropy Speaks podcast series with your host, Isaiah Oliver, president and CEO of the Community Foundation of Greater Flint. Join us as we engage in candid conversations with leaders throughout the nonprofit world and inspiring individuals who are making a real difference in Flint and Genesee County, Michigan.

Isaiah Oliver:

I'm Isaiah Oliver, president and CEO of the Community Foundation of Greater Flint, which means I lead an organization focused on engaging people in philanthropy, giving time and talent and treasure to make communities you love, better places to live in, work in and contribute to. And so today I'm joined by Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha. Um, and I'm going to jump right into questions here because we're gonna to hear a whole lot about your story throughout this conversation. But I'll start by saying one, thank you for all that you've done for Flint kids and their families. Uh, we've learned quite a bit through you and with you on this journey and because of you, a number of Flint kids in their families have a bright future.

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Thank you Isaiah. Um, I am privileged to do this work. I am privileged to to do this work in partnership with you in so many other incredible people in this city.

Isaiah Oliver:

So, the first question out the box, how are Flint kids doing-(this for the folks who aren't from aren't from Flint aren't in Flint) I mean, if you were to give people an update, how are Flint kids doing?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

So, I just walked over here from clinic where I had the awesome opportunity to care and take care of our Flint kids. Um, and I can tell you about how those kids I saw in clinic are doing and they are amazing and brilliant and bright and smart and brave. Um, but that's just a few kids and that doesn't really help answer the question of how our Flint kids doing at a population level. Cause that's what people really want to know. Like"How's the city doing?", and especially"how are our kids doing?". So we're trying to garner that information in a very scientific way. And that's where the Flint Registry is critically important. So,the Flint Registry is a huge project funded by the CDC, the Center For Disease Control. To answer that question- how are the people of Flint doing- in a very objective way.. how, how's their health, how's their development, how's their stress, what are their unmet needs? And then the Registry after kind of after we find out how they're doing, the goal of the Registry is to get people connected to those resources to make sure that they're going to do even better than they are today. So, you know, I can tell you once again how those kids I saw today are doing and they're awesome and they're gorgeous and I love them and I, I treasure the time I have with Flint kids. Um, but more importantly we need kind of that big data which we're working on.

Isaiah Oliver:

Yeah. That big data will probably help to describe positive or negative trends and snapshots in time for us. If you had to describe it, biggest concern, I mean, four years into this work, I mean actually not four years into this, five years into a water crisis, how would you describe, what would you describe as the biggest concern for Flint kids and families?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think the biggest concern and kind of what keeps me up at night is the ability for us to keep doing all the awesome that we've been able to put into place. Uh, so you know, right when this crisis happened, right when we realized this population level of trauma, of this crisis, um, you know, the same speed and urgency that we had to uncover the crisis that hasn't ended because we have been working, you know, hand in hand with so many folks in that same, you know, urgent need to put into place the things that we'll, we'll make sure that Flint kids not only recover, but thrive. Um, so we've been able to do some amazing things in this city, really model innovative wrap-around supports for our children, from home visiting programs, to high quality childcare, to literacy support and healthcare access and nutrition support. All of these are key ingredients to make sure that children grow up healthy and strong. So we've been able to do lots of awesome. But my biggest concern that I have today is- how are we going to keep funding these programs? How are we going to make sure that we continue to do this awesome. Not just for the next couple of years, but really for, you know, decades to come because these are things that our kids will need long term.

Isaiah Oliver:

And you describe quite a bit of that in your book, and your book has been selected"The Great Michigan, Great American Read" for the..?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

It's the, it's the State Book for Michigan, uh, which is, uh, The Great Michigan Read, which is run by the Michigan Humanities, um, organization.

Isaiah Oliver:

So as you travel the country, when people ask you tons of questions, what's one of those questions that people ask you that you're not only anticipating but excited to share?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Yeah, I think, um, one of the most common questions people ask is, how's Flint today? You know, they obviously maybe have heard snippets about the crisis and they've seen those pictures of brown water and you know, they remember the national media attention. So they remember kind of like a little bit of what happened. Um, but folks are kind of confused and understandably, of like, where's Flint today? Like,"can you drink your water today?". Uh, so that's a very common question and I talk about how, you know, you know, we had this water crisis and our pipes were so damaged and now they're being replaced. And that's super exciting because we're almost done with that pipe replacement project. And what's even more exciting, we're going to be the only the third city in the country that has replaced their lead pipes. And now many cities are following because of, you know, what our experience. So, once again, you know, Flint is not only the story of a crisis, but this is an incredible story of how we're leading the nation in, in our recovery. So I talk a lot about kind of where we are in the today in terms of water. And then once again, the water are, the most common questions I get asked is how are the kids doing? And I get to share the awesome that we've been able to put in place and even more exciting is, I get to share how now not only are we doing awesome and Flint, the really neat thing that's happening is that we're exporting our awesome because communities all over are learning from us, not just from the pipe replacement work that we're doing, but also from the innovative, preventative. And proactive work that we're doing to support children and families.

Isaiah Oliver:

So, you talked about questions that you anticipated. What question or questions have surprised you as you've, as you've been on this book circuit?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Um, I was at an event yesterday as part of the Great Michigan Read. It was actually here, at the Flint Public Library. And the very first question I got, um, was about how I got my name, my name, Mona. Um, and I loved it. That was a great question. Um, the very first chapter of my book, the title is- How I Got My Name. Uh, so, so often I get questions about Flint, but I often, I also am surprised by the questions that I get asked about me. Um, the story of me is very much a part of the book that I wrote. Uh, the book that I wrote as a memoir. It's a, it's, um, you know, for me, for you to understand kind of what happened for readers to understand what happened in Flint. It became really impossible to separate the, you know, what I did and why I did it, and how I ended up being in Flint from like, who I was and, and what, what my family was like. And the immigrant story that brought me not only to this country, but brought me to be able to be in Flint as a practicing pediatrician. Um, so that started out with kind of how I got my name and my name is weird, like, it's Mona, which is a very common Arabic name, but in Arabic it's often"Muna". Um, but when I was born, um, my grandfather who named me wanting to me to have a name that would fit not only in Eastern cultures but, but Western cultures. Um, so he named me Mona, which means, um, hope, wish or desire.

Isaiah Oliver:

Oh wooow. So, speaking of the book and both hoping and wishing, um, as you've been on this tour circuit, um, you experienced a lot of people. If you had to give advice to other communities on how they respond to a crisis of any sort, and in some cases really a water crisis. If you think about new work, um, what has it been your advice to folks in other communities?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Yeah, that's a great question, Isaiah. And that's actually one of the reasons that I wrote this book. Ah, so my book very much is that firsthand, fast paced account of what happened in Flint. It's that memoir. Um, but it's, it's not about me and it's not about Flint. Um, more than ever, this book is, it's about all of us. It's about going to who we are and who we want to be. But title of the book is What The Eyes Don't See. And it means lots of things. We don't see lead and water. We don't see the effects of lead. Um, but it's about people in places and problems that we choose not to see. Flint was neglected. People close their eyes to Flint that was over there. That was that city. That's not my children. I'm just gonna turn away, you know? Yeah, those, the water's brown. But like, it's probably not real. I'm not going to believe it. Like they, you know, they can deal with their problem. They probably even created their own problem. So that's kind of the indifference that happened in Flint, but not an isolated problem. Um, and the reason that I wrote this book and why I am privileged to share the story is to share that wherever we go, we, there are injustices, there are people and there are places and there are problems that we choose to close our eyes to. Yet, what I hope that this book kind of creates is this, almost, playbook of sorts of how to be awake to injustices, but more importantly, how to act. And acting is not easy. It's, it's scary. It's hard. It may seem impossible. But it's the right thing to do. And if ever in our nation we needed, um, especially young people to be awake to injustices and to speak up, it is now. Um, so that's kind of the beauty of this book, is it's almost like a call to action. It's a rallying cry for folks all over, uh, to be awake, to act even when it's hard, but to fight for justice because, um, that is, you know, that is absolutely a critical thing that we need right now in our nation.

Isaiah Oliver:

Yeah. We might conclude with some other things from the book, but let me jump to a place you talked about fighting for advocacy and justice and um, on the surface people see a lot of what you're doing and when it shows up on TV or in media. Um, let's go back to, and I was in the room the day that you laid out your results to the Hurley board. It was a meeting at the Hurley board of managers. The board was there. It was in the early hospital. I was there sitting in the room listening and quite frankly, cringing at the results from that point. There was a series of meetings with different leaders across our community and across our country to decide what we would do. And you're no, no stranger to playbooks. You talked about the playbook a minute ago, there was a clear science to how we respond to this and you worked on that quite a bit before the development of the Flint Kids Fund. Could you talk to us a little bit about those things that were included in the science in response or mitigating lead or toxin exposure?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

That was a great question, Isaiah. And, and that's why what we're doing here in Flint is applicable to communities all over the place. Uh, so if you think about what happened in Flint, it's a clear case of the consequences of science, denial, like basic, common sense science, especially in terms of water treatment was denied science, scientists, doctors were dismissed and ignored. Um, it was our science that ultimately spoke truth to power and eventually got the state to concede and, and has put us kind of in this path towards recovery. And then since then we have been leaning on the incredible science of child development, brain plasticity, early adversity, toxic stress and resilience to mitigate the impact of this crisis. We can't necessarily take away what happened. There's no, like, magic pill. There is no cure. There is no antidote. I wish there was, I wish there was like a rewind button or something I could give to my patients because they take it all away. Like pretend this never happened, but there's not. However, science tells us there is so much that we do to mitigate the impact of this crisis. The water crisis was more than also just about lead exposure. That's kind of what captured the media's attention and finally got the seat to concede. Um, but it was also this population level trauma, um, with raw feelings of anger and betrayal and guilt and anxiety and stress and fear and just those emotions can also lead to poor outcomes. We also had an outbreak of Legionnaires' disease, which is a pneumonia and people died from that. We had skin issues. Um, so lots and lots of issues were part of this broader water crisis. And then this water crisis was on top of decades of crisis, decades of toxicities that our Flint kids were already exposed to. We have a 60% child poverty rate, uh, lack of full service grocery stores, one of the most violent crime rates in the country, you know, crumbling schools, population loss, disinvestment, unemployment, racism. The list goes on of the toxicities that our Flint kids were already exposed to. And then you put the water crisis on top of all of that. Well, with all of its kind of features. So the science that we leaned on was the science of, of toxic stress that, hey, this water crisis was one added toxicity on top of a population of children that were already rattled with so many toxicities. So then what did we do next? How, how do we mitigate that? How do we buffer that? You know, if we can't take it away, if we can't give somebody that magic pill and the science of, of child development tells us that we can do a lot. And that's what we've been able to do. So we kind of came up with this long list of everything that kids need, um, and really waiting that period of early childhood because that's when brains are the most plastic. That's when they can kind of buffer the most of this adversity. That's when you know, kid's brains like triple in size and that's when most of their neural connections are happening in that period of early childhood. So then we looked at, you know, what do kids need before they're born? They need great prenatal care. Moms need great nutrition, they need healthcare access. Um, they need home visiting programs, even when moms are pregnant. And when babies are born, they need things like, you know, home visiting programs and, and home-based developmental support and great nutrition and breastfeeding services and breastfeeding support. And then they need high quality childcare. Um, we know that high quality childcare, um, it's critical for kids' brains to develop. Um, it has like 14 to one return on investment when kids aren't a high quality childcare center. Uh, and then they need access to a doctor and they still need great nutrition and they need nutrition services and transportation. Um, and then their families also needed to be supported so they need parenting support. Um, so we were able to put together this long list, based on science, of what kids in Flint need to grow up to be healthy and successful. And then when you look at this list, you know, people were like, wow, that's amazing. That's incredible that you put this together. Um, and I, you know, I would scratch my head, I'm like, this is not rocket science. Like this is common sense. The stuff that we are doing now for our Flint kids we should have been doing decades ago. But it's also stuff that every kid needs. Every kid needs these things. Every, every kid needs nutrition and health care access and you know, family support and all these critical ingredients to make children healthy. And that's why, and that's how what we're doing in Flint is being adopted by other communities. Um, because there are kids everywhere that wake up to those same nightmares as our Flint kids do. Uh, be it environmental contamination or poverty or injustice or lost democracy or stolen opportunity. Um, throughout this nation too many kids trajectories are almost predicted by the zip codes that they are born into. Um, so the neat thing is that we've been able to kind of share our best practices with these other communities to help children all over the place. And it is all based on science.

Isaiah Oliver:

So you are the perfect example of philanthropy, time, talent and treasure giving of all three of those things. Um, your time, you obviously spent quite a bit of time after helping to establish The Flint Kid Fund, helping to advise on the fund and where dollars actually go in our community. Um, talent. I mean we can talk quite a bit about how and when you realize that your purpose and passion were aligned in a way that made you feel good about waking up everyday.

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Oh, I love waking up every day. I love, I love coming to work. I pinch myself that this is the work that I get to do. I'm like, I literally have goose, goosebumps right now. I'm, I'm so lucky to be able to do this work, to touch so many children and to do it with people like you.

Isaiah Oliver:

And finally, when we think about philanthropy, we always think about treasure. Um, but yours is pretty...

Dr Hanna-Attish:

like a pot of gold or something?

Isaiah Oliver:

The resources from the book to the Flint kids fund. Um, there's a reason why you did that and obviously there's some proof in the grant making this happen so far. If you were to describe the impact of the Flint Kids Fund on the Flint community today, what would you share?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Um, multiplicative. Uh, it has been, um, you know, unexpected. Uh, when this crisis happened, uh, I personally was struck by the generosity of the nation. Uh, we've been able to raise, I think about$20 million dollars. Uh, we've given out about 8 million. And, um, that is huge. That is amazing. So I think too often we fail to take a step back and say, wow, we did this. We did this in just a few, you know, years. And what we did have, have, has had and will continue to have a lasting impact on our children. Like what we did was game changing, uh, and you name it from breastfeeding support programs to nutrition education, to home visiting support to parenting resources, books in the hands of children. The list goes on of what this fund has been able to do for our children. And in many respects, as you know, this work is just beginning. Uh, the, the intent of this fund is to continue for as long as we can, hopefully at least until these children, um, have reached adulthood. Um, but I'm, I'm grateful to have the opportunity to kind of be part of this fund to, you know, to, to help conceive it and to grow it. And you know, you said it, one of the reasons I wrote this book is to make sure that we can continue to support, um, this tomorrow fund so that our kids have the resources they need, um, to recover, but not only recover but thrive.

Isaiah Oliver:

Yeah. If anyone reads the book, which they all should. They also, they will learn that you're not only a fighter, but a stubborn fighter. You get your energy from.

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Um, I've always, uh, been constant go energy. Um, and I now drink a lot of coffee, too. Um, but you know what, my energy comes from that same place that, that drives me to want to be here every day. Like, like I said earlier, I, I love my work. Like people, there's a lot of talk now about like wellness and like, you know, self care and all that stuff. But like for me, wellness is being able to do this work. My work provides me with that wellness and that energy. Um, you know, an hour ago I was in clinic, I was caring for patients. That one on one interaction I have with Flint kids is also like a recharge. Just like I, it's like I got plugged in and I got another boost because lot of my energy comes from those individual interactions with our kids.

Isaiah Oliver:

What's the next big barrier? And we've watched you blast through barriers over the last four years. What's the next big barrier that you see on the horizon, not only for your work, but for the kids that you advocate for?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Yeah, I think I, you know, I'll, I'll go back to what I mentioned before. I'm the, I think the next big barrier is the sustainability is our ability to keep doing what we're doing. Um, the Flint Registry was funded for four years. We're in year three. It needs to be reauthorized. Um, Medicaid expansion, um, home visiting programs, nutrition support, breastfeeding literacy. The biggest barrier is our ability to do this work in long term. And that's why, and that's one of the reasons we're so dependent on you and philanthropy, uh, to fill in the gaps where a lot of our kind of governmental resources fail.

Isaiah Oliver:

If we had$100 million right now to go to the spaces or places to fill the gaps that, you know, are necessary to be filled, where would we direct those resources?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Yeah. You know, I've thought about this a lot and you know, I've talked a lot about the critical science-based programs that we've built, um, how critical it is to invest in that period of early childhood. Um, and then I also think a lot about the upstream issues. Like, why, why, you know, why are these things happening? Why have they, why have we been in crisis for so long? And then, you know, that gets me back to issues of like poverty and income inequality and discrimination and all these other fundamental issues that brought us here. And if I had$100 million dollars, you know, I would be torn, I would want to put it in the pockets of people, you know, I want to put money in the pockets of people to help them, you know, have stable home environments so that they can support themselves and their children. Um, but then I would also want to, for example, opened up many more childcare centers so kids can get that. Um, but you know, we've had a lot of money has come into Flint, like not directly into Flint, but through pipe replacements and the National Guard and home, you know, of the Registry. And I think it's probably close to a billion dollars. Like, if you'd look at like all the, you know, the small business loans and like, you know, the list goes on of like what has been able to come in. And sometimes I sit back, I'm like, what if that money just went right to the people instead, you know, would that have been better? Like I think we need both. You know, I, I, but I think we can't forget the fundamentally look at the income inequality issues and the poverty issues. Um, and how we need economic development. We need living wage jobs. And sometimes that can be a more potent kind of medication than, than any antibiotic that I prescribe.

Isaiah Oliver:

I'll end with one question. Um, it may seem surface, but it's quite deep for me. What are you most hopeful about for the future of our community?

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Um, there's a lot of things that I'm hopeful about and I use the word hope a lot, but I don't use it lightly. Uh, you know, I, I, I tie it to all the things that we've been able to bring into place. And I am hopeful that if our, you know, kids do get connected to all these things that we've been able to bring in, that their future is not only hopeful, but that their future is absolutely better than their past ever was. Um, so that's, you know, that's my hope. My hope is that we are together hand in hand with, with so many of our own parents in our Flint kids and our community partners able to build something that is sustainable. Um, and that will in a very kind of objective way prove that all of these efforts, you know, provided brighter futures for our children. Um, so I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that all these things that we're doing, uh, will change the trajectory of our children, which was not in a good place to start with.

Isaiah Oliver:

So, Dr. Mona, I want to thank you for joining me today.

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Isiah, It is always a pleasure to talk to you.

Isaiah Oliver:

I want to thank you for your commitment to Flint, to Flint kids and families. Thank you for your friendship.

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Thank you. It's a privilege.

Isaiah Oliver:

For your, undying support of the Flint kids fund. So thank you.

Dr Hanna-Attish:

Thank you Isaiah.